So what is the rule then? Evo fails MOT on HID Issue

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Normski

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Couldn't see this posted anywhere else:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/news/autoexpressnews/283846/watchdog_unfair_mot_failures.html

Cars are failing the MoT test on an obscure technicality despite being roadworthy, Auto Express has learned. Reader Timothy Walsh was gobsmacked when his pride and joy – a 2004 Mitsubishi Evolution VIII – was declared unsafe to drive after its annual check-up.

The tester told Timothy, from Banbridge, Co Down, that it had failed because the car’s factory-fitted HID headlamps did not have washers and a self-levelling system – both of which are required on new cars with HID lights under type approval laws that came into effect in 2010.

But Timothy’s car was built in 2004, long before the regulations were introduced. “How can a car built in 2004 meet regulations introduced six years later? It’s ridiculous!” said Timothy, who now faces the prospect of paying to replace perfectly good headlamps before getting his Mitsubishi retested. The problem is down to the wording of MoT guidelines issued by Northern Ireland’s Driver and Vehicle Agency (DVA).

The section on HID lamps is slightly different to the one issued by the Vehicle and Operator Services Agency (VOSA) to garages in England, Scotland and Wales. VOSA’s states: “A car with HID lights MAY also have headlight washers and self levelling which must be checked and in working order if fitted.” The DVA’s states: “A car with HID lights MUST have headlight washers and self levelling...”

We pointed out the discrepancy to the DVA and asked if the wording would be changed so cars couldn’t be failed for not meeting regulations introduced many years after they were made. But a spokeswoman said the DVA believed its regulations were right and that the same test standard would be applied by garages in the rest of Britain.

A spokesman for VOSA denied that this was the case. He said: “If a car has the washing and self-levelling system then we’ll check it and it will need to be in full working order. If it’s not there, we don’t check it – we give the owner the benefit of the doubt.”
The problem
The wording of new MoT regulations meant Timothy Walsh’s Mitsubishi failed its MoT on a technicality, despite being perfectly roadworthy.
DVA's response
A spokeswoman said:“The DVA tester’s manual accurately reflects the legal requirements for HID headlamps and no changes are envisaged.”
Legal advice
Timothy can appeal against the examiners’ decision and have the car re-examined. If the new examiner upholds the appeal, the car will get a test certificate and the DVA may refund part or all of the fee.
Our verdict
It’s absurd to expect cars to comply with regulations introduced after they were built. We suspect the DVA guidelines have been incorrectly worded, but the agency doesn’t want to admit the mistake.

Story from here, anyone on the site?
 

davecoupe

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The 200 failed last week for the same thing. Ok it didnt have washers but I had them flushed off the bumper long before the new rules were introduced.

the bigger issue imo was the 18:50 charge for a re-test when no equipment was used to re-test it. It didnt even get into the shed, was just looked at in the carpark and passed.
 

chris_b

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That is just typical of MOT centres here :mad:

Many are complete and utter joke that offer no level of consistency whatsoever.
My misses brought her car a few weeks ago for test and it failed on headlight alignment, which I doubt was my fault :oops: and a brake pipe - nothing else.
We got the headlight sorted and a mechanic looked at the pipe in question and decided a cleaning was all that was required.
So £18.50 later we present the car again, the guy at the MOT centre went daft that we did not replace the pipe and practically through me & the car out of the centre writing on the fail sheet - brake pipe to be replaced!!!
So now we booked the car in to get the pipe replaced, then had to book a new test at £30.50 because the time period had lapsed and presented the car for test.
She brought it this time and decided the guy was looking at her plates funny so she took pictures of the two cars in the test centre at the time, one had spacing of the letters to represent a name and the other metros that were squashed to a fraction of the required size. After PASSING these two cars he failed her car on number plates.
She threw the toys out of the pram and questioned the two cars that had just passed, the examiner then decided to update the system with a pass and proceeded to print the cert but refused to give it to her and instead telling her to fit standard plates to return to the test centre.

Now I would be sure that never mind the passing of the two cars but to notify the system of a pass which in turn will show on the database and refuse to issue the cert is bound to be against procedures?
She was stopped at a check point yesterday and when asked about the MOT disc she told the story and even the officer agreed that it should have been issued and that her plates were perfectly @saxo_man**legible**

Being a woman she is for fighting the bit out so we will see what happens....
 

stevieturbo

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The rules in England were actually changed after a monumental **** up in the wording, and knowing that there are many totally legit and legal UK cars that do not have headlamp washers.

Manufacturers only deemed it necessary to fit them around 2010. So few before that will have them.

Only the dimwits over here have stuck with the original and very flawed wording to insist that cars must have something that was never fitted in the first place.

The regs for Northern Ireland - http://www.dvlni.gov.uk/Freedom%20of%20Information...
There are slight, but important, differences in the wording.
NORTHERN IRELAND
INFORMATION
Headlamp cleaning and levelling devices
High Intensity Discharge (HID) and LED dipped beam headlamps (whether original fitment or after-market) must be fitted with a headlamp washing system (a wiper is not required) and be self levelling. This may be achieved by the use of either headlamp or suspension levelling systems. However, some high performance vehicles fitted with HID headlamps that have limited luggage space and stiff suspension do not require a self levelling system. It is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.
Where headlamp levelling or cleaning devices are missing or defective, but there is doubt as to whether they are required, the benefit of the doubt should be given.
Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dippedbeam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.
HID lamps may be identified by:
• taking a few seconds to reach full intensity
• having a bluish tinge to the light
• having an igniter module/inverter behind the headlamp
• having 'DCR' marked on the headlamp lens.
HID headlamps use high voltage and extra care should be taken when inspecting these items.
METHOD OF INSPECTION
3. Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp self levelling and cleaning devices fitted.
REASON FOR REJECTION
3. An HID/LED headlamp, self levelling or cleaning device missing, inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.


THE REST OF UNITED KINGDOM

INFORMATION
Vehicles equipped with High Intensity Discharge (HID) or LED dipped beam headlamps may be fitted with headlamp washers and a suspension or headlamp self levelling system.
Where such systems are fitted, they must work; however, it is accepted that it may not be possible to readily determine the functioning of self levelling systems. In such cases, the benefit of the doubt must be given.
Headlamp washers may work in conjunction with the windscreen washers (when the dipped beam headlamps are switched on) or by a separate switch.
HID lamps may be identified by:
· taking a few seconds to reach full intensity
· having a bluish tinge to the light
· having an igniter module/inverter behind the headlamp
· having ‘DCR’ marked on the headlamp lens.
HID headlamps use high voltage and extra care should be taken when inspecting these items.

METHOD OF INSPECTION
2. Where HID or LED dipped beam headlamps are fitted, switch on the headlamps and check the operation of any headlamp levelling and cleaning devices fitted.

REASON FOR REJECTION
2. A headlamp levelling or cleaning device inoperative or otherwise obviously defective.
 

lighter7

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Mot's in theory are a good idea, in practice they are crap. Over here as we all well know, one tiny thing and its a fail, even more so with these stupid new rules. Where as over in England, etc. you can literally pay to get an MOT.

But in saying all that you can get some deadon people working in the MOT centres, I remember I went to bring in my classic Merc and the indicators stopped working as the car went in (typical like) and instread of the guy failing me he tried to help me fix it so it could pass it lol.
 

Coog

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What's this bit about then?

Where headlamp levelling or cleaning devices are missing or defective, but there is doubt as to whether they are required, the benefit of the doubt should be given.

Out of interest - what did they do about seat belts in the rear, rear fog lights, indicator lights, etc? After a certain year they were required or did they go down the same road as HID's and just say everyone needed them even if not factory fitted.
 

Noel McQ

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I made this point in the other thread on ne MOT legislation. How the hell is it ok for them to fail a car that came out of the factory like that?
 

NI_Volvo_Nut

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Euro reg's, enforced by DVA, not created by, take it up with the EU

I'm sure it won't be long until something is in place to exempt certain vehicles from it, but I haven't heard of anything yet
 

Coog

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If they asked you to demonstrate your headlight washing system could you not hop out with a squirty bottle? :p I know you'd more than likely get laughed out of the place but there's nothing in the above statement to say that the washers must be mechanically operated from inside the vehicle.

Seriously though... it it was me I'd literally cable tie pipe work up to the lights and run it off the motor for the rear window washer.
 

pablo

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ah Ill reconnect it up, pain in the hole tho I blocked the pump outlet for the headlights so need to strip the washer bottle out etc.
 

Artoir

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If they asked you to demonstrate your headlight washing system could you not hop out with a squirty bottle? :p I know you'd more than likely get laughed out of the place but there's nothing in the above statement to say that the washers must be mechanically operated from inside the vehicle.

Seriously though... it it was me I'd literally cable tie pipe work up to the lights and run it off the motor for the rear window washer.

I asked about a supersoaker at my knee connected to some plastic tubing cable tied to the bumper and pointing at the headlights, never got a straight answer.
 

miniator

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Euro reg's, enforced by DVA, not created by, take it up with the EU

I'm sure it won't be long until something is in place to exempt certain vehicles from it, but I haven't heard of anything yet

So do VOSA operate under a different set of regulations then?!


Out of interest - what did they do about seat belts in the rear, rear fog lights, indicator lights, etc? After a certain year they were required or did they go down the same road as HID's and just say everyone needed them even if not factory fitted.

In the case of my mini, back in the day (no doubt ill have bother next time round), being 1972 it has no rear belts, no fog lights, no reverse lights, no side indicators, didnt need to have a cat and was exempt from any emissions test. Passed first time, no questions asked!
 

Coog

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I asked about a supersoaker at my knee connected to some plastic tubing cable tied to the bumper and pointing at the headlights, never got a straight answer.

It'd all depend on their own definition of a 'headlamp washing system'.
 

stevieturbo

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Euro reg's, enforced by DVA, not created by, take it up with the EU

I'm sure it won't be long until something is in place to exempt certain vehicles from it, but I haven't heard of anything yet


As Coog's says, VOSA have already realised they are total idiots and made amendments regarding the headlights.. DVA have yet to realise the stupidity and are blindly enforcing the nonsense.
Certainly not European rules.

And besides....what sort of retards make rules like...

HID's must have self levelling....then have no means of testing it
HID's must have washers....despite the fact thousands of cars never had washers in the first place.
Towbar sockets must work.....then none of the test centres have any equipment to test them.

It's one thing introducing new rules, some of which are quite reasonable. But F**k me, you'd think they would at least put some thought into them before trying to implement them !
 

stevieturbo

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Out of interest - what did they do about seat belts in the rear, rear fog lights, indicator lights, etc? After a certain year they were required or did they go down the same road as HID's and just say everyone needed them even if not factory fitted.

Havent heard of any new rule changes with any of those. So the same rules will apply, and all of those do have cut off dates....some common sense was used there !
 

NI_Volvo_Nut

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JCLC - non working headlight washers with NO hids, is that a fail? I disconnected mine because I hate them.
If no HID fitted, washers don't need to work

So do VOSA operate under a different set of regulations then?!




In the case of my mini, back in the day (no doubt ill have bother next time round), being 1972 it has no rear belts, no fog lights, no reverse lights, no side indicators, didnt need to have a cat and was exempt from any emissions test. Passed first time, no questions asked!
Yes, NI MOT is only adapted from VOSA, its similar to mainland MOT but not the sam,e exactly, diesel smoke and cat testing for 1 example

If they asked you to demonstrate your headlight washing system could you not hop out with a squirty bottle? :p I know you'd more than likely get laughed out of the place but there's nothing in the above statement to say that the washers must be mechanically operated from inside the vehicle.

Seriously though... it it was me I'd literally cable tie pipe work up to the lights and run it off the motor for the rear window washer.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be accepted.....
 

Jason

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LMAO... brilliant, I knew that the legislation would have to be changed, even after all the knobs on forums say "oh just go fit washers"
 

stevieturbo

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LMAO... brilliant, I knew that the legislation would have to be changed, even after all the knobs on forums say "oh just go fit washers"

Unfortunately until the dimwits rescind and admit they were stupid and change the rules here, if you want to pass you'll either need a tester with an ability to use common sense, or have to fit washers.

So at the minute, yes you will have to fit washers in most cases. Although washers is a loose term. Something that squirts water on them on request would be a better description.
 

jcraigynwa

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i recently fitted hid kit to my own car not knowing the legisaltion its very muddy waters indeed but after a quick call to the mot centre i was swiftly aware that even the mot testers aren,t too sure but was told to be on the safe side remove the hid bulbs and put standard bulbs back in however when i asked if i put them back in after mot would it be illegal the guy i was speaking to said it was entirely up to me it took me all of 2 minutes to take them out so no big hassle
 
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