American muscle or Honda?

[PhilM]

see if you all did that we wouldnt be soo quick to laugh at yous haha

Phil

[curtis_hughes]

fact is, you can't compair two cars that have nothing in common apart from "they are cars"

But if someone where to line up a 67 mustang and a DC2, i'd take the 67 everytime





















then sell it and buy a 70's Cuda with a "few mods"

[Souleh]

Originally Posted by PhilM

see if you all did that we wouldnt be soo quick to laugh at yous haha

Phil

Lol I already give up trying to get decent insurance here

[Richy]

I would find a car that made me laugh (DC2, EP3 etc) more appealing day to day, instead of one that makes me scream and/or cry for fear of my life (Charged Muskle yokes lol) so Id go with the Honda, until I got used to my charged, 700bhp, V8, 40 year old heap of american dose. But when/if I ever got used to 700bhp and it made me laugh at it... I'd probably die shortly afterwards.

[Crimson]

According to Dwight "muscle beats import everytime" lol

YouTube - Muscle Beats Import Everytime!

[marcusplowman]

Neither for me thanks!

[GazEP3]

Honda for the simple fact that they can actualy tune a car!

A lot of the 'old' classic american muscle cars are seriously underpower and overweight... bit like their makers lol take some of the oldskool camaro's for example packing big engines and only putting out 160bhp!!!

Example

SPECIFICATIONS:
1994 CHEVROLET V6 CAMARO CONVERTIBLE


Base Price $ 18,475
Price As Tested $ 22,544
Engine Type V-6, ohv - pushrod, smpfi
Engine Size 3.4 liter/207 cid
Horsepower 160 @ 4600
Torque (ft/lbs) 200 @ 3600
Wheelbase/Length 101"/193"
Transmission four speed auto w/od
Curb Weight 3350
Pounds per Horsepower 21
Fuel Capacity 15
Fuel Requirement Unleaded regular (87 oct)
Tire Goodyear Eagle GA 235/55R16
Brake anti-lock standard disc/drum
Drive Train front engine/rear drive

Most of the decent 1600cc B series Honda engines had the same output and weighed a fraction of what these tankers weigh.

Just an example

[Souleh]

Its just how america does things, cant blame them for being american (in this argument anyway )

[Captain Starlet]

I would take a esprit nsx over an american muscle any day

[Mark_C]

Originally Posted by GazEP3

Honda for the simple fact that they can actualy tune a car!

A lot of the 'old' classic american muscle cars are seriously underpower and overweight... bit like their makers lol take some of the oldskool camaro's for example packing big engines and only putting out 160bhp!!!

Example

SPECIFICATIONS:
1994 CHEVROLET V6 CAMARO CONVERTIBLE


Base Price $ 18,475
Price As Tested $ 22,544
Engine Type V-6, ohv - pushrod, smpfi
Engine Size 3.4 liter/207 cid
Horsepower 160 @ 4600
Torque (ft/lbs) 200 @ 3600
Wheelbase/Length 101"/193"
Transmission four speed auto w/od
Curb Weight 3350
Pounds per Horsepower 21
Fuel Capacity 15
Fuel Requirement Unleaded regular (87 oct)
Tire Goodyear Eagle GA 235/55R16
Brake anti-lock standard disc/drum
Drive Train front engine/rear drive

Most of the decent 1600cc B series Honda engines had the same output and weighed a fraction of what these tankers weigh.

Just an example

That's a base model using a famously crap engine. The 5.0 is a pile of balls too - mainly thanks to smog control systems, and cheap as possible parts and carbs.

That crap engine will still have more torque though.

They just do stuff differently there. A fair comparison of a high end honda engine would be with a high end LS series engine - like an LS6 or LS7 with 500hp, and about 500 lb/ft torque.

You cannot compare the 2. Even muscle cars of the 1960s had 400+ hp. Honda don't make a road car with anywhere near that (I think)

You can buy a ready to run engine, full turn key package with almost 500hp and 500lb/ft of torque from

Chevy V8 engine builders suppliers tuners: SBC small block big block Chevrolet/Chevy. British American Engines

For around £6k.

And that is going to take a hell of a lot of abuse.

£3.5k will get you a brand new 350hp V8 with bags of torque.

[forde]

Originally Posted by Paul RS

My post was about hondas and muscle cars, in keeping with the thread.

Your post is about toyotas, vauxhalls and fords - Who's post is relevant now?

Gotta love self pwnage.

Honda have never made a properly fast car,

his post is in response to your unfounded post that any other manufacturer could make a better engine than honda. not the original post about american vs. honda.

gotta love self pwnage

also honda never made a proper fast car? what about the nsx-r? that car is amazing

maybe the point of hondas isnt out and out speed. however if you compare any of their cars to other cars in the same class then the honda will be on top or near the top in a lot of cases. not just in performance but in spec, price and quality.

plus the hondas strike a great balance between being affordable to run and performance, thats why they are brilliant. you can still afford to go to work in it and have fun at the weekend. yeah honda couldve made their cars a bit more hardcore but they wanted people to be able to own and use them and thats why they are brilliant, most other cars that would perform similarly wouldnt be as affordable or practical, comfy, useable etc



anyway this thread is ridiculous as you cant compare hondas to muscle cars, they are freakin opposites. i love both

[PhilM]

Originally Posted by forde

also honda never made a proper fast car? what about the nsx-r? that car is amazing

maybe the point of hondas isnt out and out speed.

def not out and out speed, the nsx-r wasnt even "that" fast its all about over engineering, you gotta respect what the honda name stands for.

still there is a point that honda unlike most jap manufacturers dont produce fast turbo cars.

i do have a soft spot for the odd honda though.

Phil

[forde]

some of their na cars are fast for na cars tho, so you can argue that they do produce proper fast na cars :p

but out and out speed and "fast" are different things, you can be great at cornering and therefore be able to go faster than a car that has more bhp but less handling

[PhilM]

no doubt they are, the b16 was quick for a 1.6 though not a powerful as the pulsar at the same time.

im sure they handle great, apparently a dc2 is a great handling car, what better reason could you have for giving it more power?

Phil

[Paul RS]

Originally Posted by forde

his post is in response to your unfounded post that any other manufacturer could make a better engine than honda. not the original post about american vs. honda.

gotta love self pwnage

also honda never made a proper fast car? what about the nsx-r? that car is amazing

maybe the point of hondas isnt out and out speed. however if you compare any of their cars to other cars in the same class then the honda will be on top or near the top in a lot of cases. not just in performance but in spec, price and quality.

plus the hondas strike a great balance between being affordable to run and performance, thats why they are brilliant. you can still afford to go to work in it and have fun at the weekend. yeah honda couldve made their cars a bit more hardcore but they wanted people to be able to own and use them and thats why they are brilliant, most other cars that would perform similarly wouldnt be as affordable or practical, comfy, useable etc



anyway this thread is ridiculous as you cant compare hondas to muscle cars, they are freakin opposites. i love both

My point is, take away the vtak from honda and whats left? Not alot.

My point about the vtec and its revs compared to its output isn't self pwnage at all. For what they rev to they have crap power. Maybe thats why nobody else has bothered to use the system - after all, whats the point?

Hardly self pwnage on my part as i didn't start comparing specific none honda cars to hondas did i? I was merely pointing out how overrated the vtec engine is.

Also honda could have made them more hardcore? Obviously not - Look at that stupidly priced civic thats coming out, the bhp gains are hardly worth mentioning, even though they have a 'hand built by mugan or whomever' engine all you honda halfwits rave about.

[56oval]

Originally Posted by GazEP3

Honda for the simple fact that they can actualy tune a car!

A lot of the 'old' classic american muscle cars are seriously underpower and overweight... bit like their makers lol take some of the oldskool camaro's for example packing big engines and only putting out 160bhp!!!

Example

SPECIFICATIONS:
1994 CHEVROLET V6 CAMARO CONVERTIBLE


Base Price $ 18,475
Price As Tested $ 22,544
Engine Type V-6, ohv - pushrod, smpfi
Engine Size 3.4 liter/207 cid
Horsepower 160 @ 4600
Torque (ft/lbs) 200 @ 3600
Wheelbase/Length 101"/193"
Transmission four speed auto w/od
Curb Weight 3350
Pounds per Horsepower 21
Fuel Capacity 15
Fuel Requirement Unleaded regular (87 oct)
Tire Goodyear Eagle GA 235/55R16
Brake anti-lock standard disc/drum
Drive Train front engine/rear drive

Most of the decent 1600cc B series Honda engines had the same output and weighed a fraction of what these tankers weigh.

Just an example

EXAMPLE FAIL LOL!!!!!


1994 = classic


AMERICAN "MUSCLE" = Engine Type V-6, ohv - pushrod, smpfi
Engine Size 3.4 liter/207 cid. your two cylinders missing for a start.

[big_pete]

american muscle cars are the nicest cars on the planet. Case over lol

[DaddyC]

Originally Posted by Paul RS

My point is, take away the vtak from honda and whats left? Not alot.

'hand built by mugan or whomever' engine all you honda halfwits rave about.

But thats like saying 'take a turbo away from a Sierra Cosworth and what have you got? A Sierra Sapphire GLX' and if your granny had balls she'd be your granda

Oh and that 2nd bit is just Ollie

[Gaz]

Originally Posted by Paul RS

My point is, take away the vtak from honda and whats left? Not alot.

That doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Take away a turbo from any engine, whats left? Take away the supercharger, whats left? Change your rotary engines into Piston engines, what's left?

My point about the vtec and its revs compared to its output isn't self pwnage at all. For what they rev to they have crap power. Maybe thats why nobody else has bothered to use the system - after all, whats the point?

Honda once built (purely for dyno purposes) a 1.6 b16a engine pushing 295bhp. However, these are mass production cars and reliability is key. 160bhp from a 1.6 (for example) is still a good achievement and a higher output than most other manufactuers of the time. Of course they could make more power, but as with any highly strung engine, would sacrifice reliability.

Also honda could have made them more hardcore? Obviously not - Look at that stupidly priced civic thats coming out, the bhp gains are hardly worth mentioning, even though they have a 'hand built by mugan or whomever' engine all you honda halfwits rave about.

Read this month's Evo ......... they thought it was a better car than the Focus RS and Clio Cup. For what it's worth, I think it's a very expensive car too, but let's not play down it's abilities.

[Coog]

Originally Posted by GazEP3

Honda for the simple fact that they can actualy tune a car!

A lot of the 'old' classic american muscle cars are seriously underpower and overweight... bit like their makers lol take some of the oldskool camaro's for example packing big engines and only putting out 160bhp!!!

The 'old' 70's civic was c. 50bhp lol

The two car types aren't even comparable, there's several decades between them for a start, never mind price difference and the fact that the vast majority of RMS'ers only have pictures or hearsay as the basis of their knowledge of muscle cars. Quite a silly arguement, but good excuse to throw up some pictures of the old american muscle

Jesus they're cool...

[PhilM]

the vtec system is great imo, allows you to drive the car slowly without the hassles of lairy cams and such like bothering you at idle as with any other oridinary big cam n/a car.

it definitly has its place. i just dont see why the fellas drive them with no intention of taking advantage of the system to allow them quiet and semi efficent driveablity off cam, they rake the tits off them and generally make alot of noise compared to how quick they are.

the mugen thing, daft price, im sure you could take a stock typeR and some coilovers customs bits and bobs and more power for the less money.

Phil

[Maxwell]

Originally Posted by 56oval

are we comparing apples with err pom de terr'es.

you need to brush up on the oul francais mon ami . you said "are we comparing apples and potatoes" lmfao! pommes are apples, pomme de terres are spuds!

anyhoo, american muscle is one of them cults you could never get bored of as there is so much to choose from!! mustangs, chargers, superbirds, chevelles etc etc

where as hondas you have the same models, but updates/facelifts or replacements....your limited really

i have a pet hate for american people and i hate owners of v-tecs, but i actually dont mind hondas for looks, but the rest doesnt compare against muscle cars looks and general following!

its a no win situation on my end lol

[NineK]

Originally Posted by Paul RS

My point is, take away the vtak from honda and whats left? Not alot.

My point about the vtec and its revs compared to its output isn't self pwnage at all. For what they rev to they have crap power. Maybe thats why nobody else has bothered to use the system - after all, whats the point?

Hardly self pwnage on my part as i didn't start comparing specific none honda cars to hondas did i? I was merely pointing out how overrated the vtec engine is.

Also honda could have made them more hardcore? Obviously not - Look at that stupidly priced civic thats coming out, the bhp gains are hardly worth mentioning, even though they have a 'hand built by mugan or whomever' engine all you honda halfwits rave about.

as i said, keep it relevant - perhaps not to the thread, but to whatever it is you are responding to.

You say take away vtec and honda are left with not a lot - well take away turbos and ford are left with even slower, heavy and ****ing ugly cars mainly used to shuffle people round cities with an orange sign on the roof.

You obviously feel you have a valid point when you try to put a point across that Honda are ****. What you are actually doing is ensuring all those non-ford lovers actually hate ford even more. Reason being - cos over opinionated, under educated mouths like yours come with that scene.

However, they also come in every other scene, at least if i am putting a point across i will show respect towards what any other company has managed to do. Such as the RS Turbo, ****ing great car, handles like **** all, goes like stink when played with, but still the only enjoyment from driving them is the complete lack of sense of control.

So back into your box sir, Ford are just one more manufacturer out there spooling out poorly built cars and trying to make money from it. Henry is not God, nor is he any relation to God. Your opinion is not Gospel and as such you should not try to push it on the world when the world seems to know better already.

Stick to what you love, just dont be another friggin fanboy. Just cos there is no blue oval on the front end does not mean you have a valid reason to call it **** or whatever else you determine it to be. Yes have your opinion, but remember thats all it is!!!!

[DaddyC]

Maybe Skinnyman has hacked Paul's account, or Paul left his RMS logged in accidentily

[Gee]

Hahahaaha well said Pete! Back in your box there Pauline

[Maxwell]

ninek you may have alot of truth in your speil against paul, but there are honda boyos on here who give the exact same representation, when people run down hondas. and same goes to vag fags and vaaxall boys too

much of a muchness this "scene" behavior is!

[Coog]

Everyone's a hater, we just hate different things.

[Gee]

Very true, its just some of us can tolerate and appreciate that other people have different views better than others.

[Maxwell]

exactly gee...i love fords and french pish - and get abuse, then i detest hondas and vags...purely for their following - and i also get abuse!

its all just a social bag of horse turd

[NineK]

totally agree

personally I am not that keen on the scenes surrounding Hondas

having said that, there are people who i have met through the Honda scene who are now very high on my christmas card list. But the small minority doesnt make up for the majority.

The aircooled vw scene i have found to be the best IMO, yes there is a lot of bitching about "such-and-such has the wrong year door handles on his bus", etc etc but end of the day, when the bbq is lit and the drinks are flowing they are all just friends with a common interest. Unfortunately that doesnt really carry across into the modern car scene as much.

I love Hondas, always have, probably always will, but until i can afford to be out racing a 911 GT3 or something the chances are Honda will rank highly in my mind. All down o personal experiences though.

And of course every VTi in the country is 200hp